Podcast #52: Insanely Stupid Food Aversion Hypnotherapy

Brain Software hypnosis podcastWelcome to Episode 52 of Brain Software with Mike Mandel and Chris Thompson! This is rather embarrassing to admit, but Chris had this episode sitting on his Macbook for over 2 months and forgot it was waiting to be published! We’re really sorry about the long delay since our last podcast. We should be back to our regular bi-weekly schedule starting now that summer is over and we are finished recording content for our online training program, the Mike Mandel Hypnosis Academy

Here are the show notes for this episode:

  • We discuss the potential for giving someone hypnotic suggestions in the hypnagogic state. This is a trance-like state that develops as you are falling asleep. The opposite of this is the hypnopompic state, which happens as you are waking up. Mike suggests you can give yourself positive affirmations most effectively in the hypnagogic state.
  • Can you deliver hypnotic suggestions to someone who is in the hypnopompic state? Mike’s explanation seems so obvious once you hear it.
  • We discuss food aversion therapy, where some hypnotists seem to apply absolutely stupid techniques. Never do this! Chris gets Mike to talk about what a good hypnotherapist would do instead of the stupidity of causing someone to feel ill at the smell of pizza.
  • Mike talks about a woman who had to carry an epi-pen because she could not even touch a photograph of nuts because she’d start to have an anaphylactic reaction … just from touching a picture. This is why Mike describes allergies as a phobia of the immune system.
  • A good hypnotherapist will look for the reason behind the behavior.
  • Chris discusses a story from The $100 Startup, a fantastic book by Chris Guillebeau. It’s interesting how people feel they got their money’s worth more often, when hiring someone to do a service, when the provider goes through some kind of ordeal. If a locksmith pops open a lock in 30 seconds and charges $100, the customer can often feel ripped off despite getting a better result (less time to solve their problem).
  • Mike relates this to a story about fixing a guy’s anxiety in about 3 minutes, despite booking a 90 minute session. It’s a good idea to fill the rest of the session with other ecological suggestions for ego strengthening, or whatever makes sense for the client.

 Closing metaphor: Jim locked his keys in the van

Please leave a rating for this podcast in iTunes!  Go leave a rating in iTunes, and send in your questions by emailing questions (at) MikeMandelHypnosis (dot) com.

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Raw Transcript

Chris: Welcome fellow storm riders. You are officially a rider on the hypnotic storm. Welcome to session number 52 of Brain Software with Mike Mandel and I’m Chris Thompson. He enjoys the calmness of Canadian cottage country, the rain of Great Britain and the cooking of Thailand.             He is the fervent hypnotic garbage debunker, the man whose skills surpass even his own insane sense of humor. Please welcome to the microphone Mike Mandel.

Mike:   Yes Christopher I’m here again. We’ve done a live webinar this morning and we are now doing podcast 52 and how quickly they have all passed as we all move towards our own eminent deaths at relatively high speed. Well no, not at all thanks. We’re moving at a rate of one second per second as we have been since the beginning. So what have we got today?

Chris:  All right. Well we have a few things on tap for today.

Mike:   Gad to hear it.

Chris: The first thing that we wanted to talk about is something that we have discussed adding to a podcast. We thought it would be fun is the idea of offering positive suggestions to someone in a hypnopompic state. Now before we go to anything, we do need to explain what is a hypnopompic state, how can someone make suggestions to them. We’ll talk more about that later.

Mike:   how can someone make suggestions…

Chris: How can you make a suggestion you crazy person.

Mike:   You sound like that. Hypnopompic states and hypnagogic states are really, really interesting states. Hypnagogic state has the word go in it.

Chris: Hypno… hypna…

Mike:   Hypna-go-gic is the state you are in just before you go to sleep. Hence the word go in it although that’s not really the connection. When you fall asleep, notice that your senses shut off in a particular sequence. Obviously, the visual sense shuts off first.

Chris: Because you got your eyes closed.

Mike:   You got your eyes shut and the last sense to disappear is the hearing sense. We’re lying there and things in the background can start to intrude into your sleep and your dreams as they’re beginning. Have you had that happen?

Chris: Yeah. Oh yes. Many, many, many times.

Mike:   So hypnagogic is related to a trance state. It isn’t a trance state and now we know with human given’s theory, there may be a much stronger correlation between hypnosis and actual sleep than was previously thought. Now the other aspect is the hypnopompic state and the hypnopompic state is the state you are in just prior to being fully awake. So I’m sure we’ve all had this particular thing where you’re lying in bed and you’ve started to wake up. You’re aware you’re waking up but you haven’t even opened your eyes yet.

Chris: Yeah it starts for me at least. Well only later do I realize I was waking up. At the time it’s just weird dreamlike state and you haven’t even realized that you’re actually waking up yet.

Mike:   Right and then I reach a state of full awareness but I sometimes still haven’t opened my eyes and the question is can we use these for a positive hypnotic suggestion and the answer is an abiding yes. A powerful yes. In fact, positive affirmations spoken in the first person, I this, I that whatever while falling asleep can be extremely powerful. likewise, if you awaken and you realize you’re not fully awake yet but you’re in that dreamy mid-zone. If you’re able to get your head together to start giving yourself some positive suggestions, that may be very effective too. Which one do you think would be the easiest one to do?

Chris:  Sorry, what are the two choices here again

Mike:  Well when you’re falling asleep or when you’re awake.

Chris:  Oh okay between hypnagogic or the hypnopompic. I think it would be the hypnopompic state.

Mike:   Any reason?

Chris:  Because you are emerging – I hate that word but you’re coming out of sleep. So you’re becoming more alert as time goes by as opposed to less alert.

Mike:   Okay so you think hypnopompic state would be your choice for [unclear 3:54].

Chris:  That’s just my guess.

Mike:  Just watch me lean back my hands behind my back.

Chris: You’re wrong.

Mike:   actually, the hypnagogic state is the easiest because it’s much easier to begin doing the suggestions as you transition into sleep than it is to be coming out of sleep and go, what was I supposed to be doing? oh yeah… you’ve got the conscious mind still…

Chris: I’m going to experiment with both of these Mike. I’ll let you know.

Mike:  Definitely do that. So what else do we got in the menu here?

Chris: Well okay…

Mike:  You’ve written the word food on this one.

Chris: No, no. we don’t want to get there yet but we haven’t really investigated this whole topic thoroughly yet so can you use the hypnopompic state as a way to offer positive suggestions to person who’s sleeping beside you in bed?

Mike:  No, because you don’t know that they’re in hypnopompic state.

Chris: But I was just wondering, how would you calibrate?

Mike:  Yeah how would you know. You can’t tap them and say are you awake? no answer. Are you asleep? No answer. We don’t know or you just did that in-between state. It’s okay, I’m going to give you some suggestions.

Chris: okay so when we talked about this and we didn’t flush it out at all before this recording just so the rest of you are all aware, what you mean here is self suggestion or auto suggestion. So the idea that you can give yourself positive suggestions. So, you’re ot saying to do it in the hypnopompic state. You’re saying do it in the hypnagogic state.

Mike:  I’m saying it’s more likely to work.

Chris:  Or experiment and find out. Let us know.

Mike:  Absolutely.

Chris:  Email us.

Mike:  Or do it when you’re fast asleep,.

Chris: There you go. Okay so play around with it is just something to try out. Lets talk about this next one which is about food aversion and this is a horrendous example Mike. I don’t think I’ve explained to you what’s going on here. I wanted to save this for this podcast because I just think its going to be one of these classic things where absolutely stupidity is involved.

Mike:  absolutely, stupidity is involved.

Chris:  That’s why pause, Mike. There’s no use for language police in there.  All right so total stupidity here. We have a situation where a hypnotist had seen a client and this client was a woman who….

Mike:  This too shall not be named.

Chris: Yeah I don’t know who it was. It was a story that I read about and…

Mike:  Somewhere that we won’t name.

Chris: I’m not going to explain where I got this from but its just horrendous, horrendous stuff. So hypnotist who believes he is doing the best work possible and we’re going to clear that up. So this woman has an issue with eating too much pizza. I’m assuming that she’s probably going – why would someone eat less pizza? There’s only two possible reasons: a, they think it’s affecting their health or; b, it’s affecting their weight. Either. If they don’t want any pizza, they’re just going to stop eating it but usually it’s well, I’m overweight. I need to drop some weight and my problem is pizza therefore I need you Mr. Hypnotist to help me to stop eating pizza. So here is hypnotist solution.

Mike:   This is an actual situation.

Chris: This was an actual situation. I’m just guessing to as what would have driven someone to want to eat less pizza and again, I’m just saying usually, its weight management or health. Something like that. It’s not just well, I’ve decided I want to not want pizza anymore. So let’s assume this woman wants to lose weight and she goes to the hypnotist and says, okay, you need to help me. She’s self-diagnosed. Well, I need to eat less pizza.

Mike:   I’m a pizzaholic.

Chris: So hypnotist decides. Okay, ill have you not just hate pizza, Mike but I’m going to have you feel sick at the smell of pizza.

Mike:   Why would he make her hate it at all? I mean that would be bad enough to make you feel sick.

Chris: Hating it is one thing that’s well beyond what you need to be doing but not only that, let’s not have her feel violently ill at the smell of pizza. So here is the problem. Now, she’s got a husband and a son who want to order pizza like Friday night before the hockey game or whatever it is and she needs to run out of the room before it gets delivered so she doesn’t smell it and have to go throw up in the bathroom.

Mike:  Oh that’s terrible.

Chris:  So let’s talk about all the things that are wrong with this and how would you deal with this type of thing differently. So a woman comes to you and say, I need you or anybody comes to you and says look, I eat too much pizza. I need you to make me hate pizza. You’re not going to actually do that. You’re not going to make them feel sick of it. Let’s talk about why that’s bad and what you do instead.

Mike:   Well first of all remember, all posthypnotic work, all posthypnotic suggestions are essentially anchors. You’re setting a stimulus to a response but a posthypnotic suggestion isn’t only set once and expect it to fire because it’s set at peak state like a typical anchor but its embedded very strongly when the person is in a deep trance which is what gives it its real power. So these kinds of things happen all the time. even an anchor can be very powerful in this area let alone a posthypnotic suggestion. So lets just see how powerful an anchor alone can be.

We came to Canada in 1957. My mother, sister and i. my father had gone ahead of us and we followed by ship, the HMS or whatever. HMS Corinthia which was white star lines was the original name of the company [unclear 9:05] but white star gave us a wonderful think called the sinking of the titanic. Same company, different name, same people and when we came across the North Atlantic, it was in the fall. I think late October, early November. My father had gone ahead of us so two kids. I’m four, my sister’s 11 and my mom in the North Atlantic which are some of the roughest seas in the world especially in the fall so we’re crossing it. It takes a full week. Everybody in the ship is seasick except for I think the captain and the ship’s doctor. Everybody else is violently ill. We had ginger ale for the first time in our lives. Having only ginger beer up to that point but you had to go down the gangway at the halls holding on to a rope so you wouldn’t fall over. You still have to eat even though you’re sick. One would be so ridiculously ill. My sister walked into the dining hall while she was feeling horrifically ill and guess what they had? Fresh rolls, bread rolls and corn on the cob were the two smells that came wafting out. That became anchored with her for maybe 20 freaking years. She couldn’t eat either one especially corn. The smell of it would immediately fire the state of being extremely nauseous and wanting to vomit. Now that was only an anchor. Remember it’s just a peak state attached to a stimulus that is specific, repeatable and noticeably unique. So with something just like an anchor happening naturally without a hypnotic trance, she was put off corn on the cob for 20 odd years until it eventually burned up. If one was doing this with a deep hypnotic state and causing this sense of aversion which of course aversion therapy is essentially stupid in my view, the effect would be so profound, you could really mess the person up. This poor person, this woman has to go – I mean in the house when she smells pizza, what a nightmare that is.

Chris: Yup. She has to avoid the smell altogether. So the way I recall it is if the pizza man was about to show up and deliver the pizza and she knew, she had to get the heck out of there before it showed up.

Mike:  It’s crazy because people say how can it be that bad? listen, I worked with clients who are so cower, so sensitive to nuts with a nut allergy which of course is just a phobia off the immune system. It’s responding inappropriately. One woman in particular could not touch a photograph of peanuts and nuts in a magazine.

Chris: Oh you told me about this.

Mike:  She’ll start to get, go into anaphylactic shock. Cary an Epi pen…

Chris: I’m not sure if we mentioned this on a podcast.

Mike:   I don’t think so.

Chris: if you did, it was long ago. its worth repeating. So okay…

Mike:   She’d carry an Epi pen. So she’d give herself a shot of adrenaline so her throat wouldn’t swell up, she wouldn’t die. And just looking at a picture of nuts, her allergy was so severe that touching a picture of nuts would cause an allergic response. So even though there’s is no allergen present. Guys it’s not your imagination. People used to think oh hypnosis. It’s all in your mind. It’s just your imagination. No, it’s about causing profound responses in your physiology and your neurology as a result of these things whether it is being made averse to pizza or someone using these techniques to fight off a cancer by imagining as one teacher I met, he’d been given a bad diagnosis, Doberman pinche3rs that were ripping a cancer to shreds in his body to stimulate his immune system to respond. So these things will have an effect.

Now the question is, is it ecological though to tell somebody every time you see, smell whatever pizza, you feel like you’re going to throw up, you feel seriously ill. I think that’s ludicrous. It shows us that the typically horror level of hypnosis that is out there and the kind of thing that people routinely practice without even thinking these through. Just making these cavalier shifts in people.

Chris:  It almost seems to me like the person who is installing a food aversion such as this pizza incident we’re talking about must believe that the alternative of having her simply not like pizza would not work because her conscious mind would somehow overpower and say well, I don’t like it but I’m going to eat it anyway. So we’re going to need a stronger ammunition against this. You need to hate it so much that just the smell of it will make you sick and therefore you will never be able to smell it without feeling sick and you’ll never eat it again. You don’t need strong medicine.

Mike:  You know who’s really good with this Chris is Didi Vergados, the weight management guru and she can make people hate stuff. She can make you hate chocolate. She can make you hate donuts.

Chris:  We talked about this on a podcast.

Mike:  But she’s not going to make you sick at the sight of it or the thought of it, it’s the very fact that she’s going to shift to submodalities, find something that you find disgusting and anchor that to it.

Chris:  Right.

Mike:  If you don’t like easting broccoli, you don’t like the flavor or whatever. Your favorite food happens to be strawberry donuts. She will get the submodalities of the strawberry donuts and how close is the image. Is it black, what’s the color, all these things and then shift to it and then make it the submodalities of the black…

Chris:  I’m immediately thinking you know broccoli that’s a little bit overcooked so it’s mushy just like that. Warm out of the oven strawberry donut. Oh yeah you can get those submodalities. There you go…

Mike:  And you can add of course content reframes and not just changing the submodalities so that the donut is the person bites into it and sees it’s crawling with worms.

Chris:  Oh horrible.

Mike:  Remember one of our wonderful architecture of hypnosis students, Joni came up with her husband all the way from Oregon. Their first morning in Toronto which is [unclear 14:32] great restaurants here, great multiculture, great everything.

Chris:  So did you say architecture of hypnosis leading into mindscape.

Mike:  Oh they came for mindscaping, are you sure?

Chris:  Yes.

Mike:  Oh I can’t sort it all in my mind at my age. This is a few months ago and to me, I can’t remember what I ate yesterday. So I can remember what they ate though. It was mindscaping couple of days and they went out to a restaurant. They went to find a restaurant, they were walking to the event and then into a little mom and pop grocery store and bought some fast food, things that sit, wrapped in a package forever and the thing was crawling with words and I thought…

Chris: Horrible.

Mike:  Now do you think she would automatically get an aversion to that food in the future?

Chris: and not only that food. So certainly to that store. Just that store.

Mike:   it doesn’t generalize to Toronto.

Chris: right so at that store you’re probably going to be thinking to yourself, no they serve the maggots or whatever right? the food too.

Mike:   there was a Swiss milk chocolate when I was in high school. I don’t think they make it anymore and I won’t say the name but clearly it’s not a big one if they don’t make it anymore. I’m not a big chocolate guy but somebody in my class, they found moth eggs and things in it.

Chris:  Oh no.

Mike:  And it’s so gross. I never ate that chocolate that again. And I’ve never even had it. I’ve never had this stuff.

Chris:  That’s horrible. It just goes to show if you…

Mike:  So aversion works but the key is to do it in an ecological manner. So shift the submodalities so they no longer crave that food like you don’t want to make it so it’s going to make them physically ill if they’re in the presence of it.

Chris:  So let’s back up a little bit just for people who are working with clients or I mean just for general interest. This is a great topic. Somebody comes into your office and says Mike, I’m really fat. I need to lose some weight and I eat too much pizza. That’s my problem. I want you to make me hate pizza. Is that enough or do you want to back up a bit and do…

Mike:   I’m going to back up. I’m going to find out what’s driving their behavior. What is pizza giving them that they need in their life? What is the state change they’re getting from it? How can they get it otherwise?

Chris:  Comfort. I get a lot of comfort. When I eat pizza, I just feel really comfortable.

Mike:   We’re going to find other ways of getting that and you have to find the drivers. You’ve got to find the reason behind the behavior and that’s always secondary gain. You don’t always have to work with secondary gain to fix something. The entire energetic tapping regimens from EFT, Esset free fast, taposaki pressure technique, etc, etc. the basic theory behind that according to Wilhelm Lamaze when I studied with him Swiss psychologist is that all of these things are driven by right brain anxiety like a zzz in the right brain. It’s nothing whatever to do with secondary gain. They’re the totally different model and both models work. I’m not making into these statements as absolute truth. I’m just saying find something that works and use that.

Chris:  Okay, makes sense. I think we’ve hammered that point home now. Let’s move on the next topic on list here which is – oh I wrote down this one. So again for those of you listening, you probably heard me say before I’m a slow reader, I like listening to audio books. So lately I’ve been listening to an audio book by Chris Guillebeau called, ‘The $100 Startup’ – really, really fascinating book for a… I love the book because it’s all about entrepreneurialism, starting business and stuff and of course since we’re entrepreneurs then it really fits for us and a lot of our listeners are into that stuff too and we told the story. He told the story and it related to the idea that people need to feel like they’re getting value for their money so the story he told was he was at a Starbucks, he had been driving a rental car to a gig but he had to do and somehow he got his coffee and he just got a bit of a mental mess and was taking some stuff off his trunk an somehow when he closed his trunk, he left his keys in there. So he locked his keys in the trunk of a rental car like on his way to a gig. So he pulls out his phone and uses the wifi connection whatever and he finds the locksmith and he gets the guy on the phone and the guy agrees to rush out immediately so 15 minutes later, a locksmith shows up in the parking lot at the Starbucks. I think I got most of the details right here and he literally takes 30 seconds to unlock the guy’s…

Mike:  Did he slim jim it down the window or something?

Chris:  He didn’t say but in the book he just explained that it took like 30 seconds before he opened the door and then he was able to pop the trunk from there kind of thing and so chris in relaying the story in the book. I thought he was billing me 25 bucks or something like that and so, when he said that will be 200 dollars, he thought oh my god, 200 dollars, that’s absurd. It took him 30 seconds. Forgetting about the fact that he had to get the guy out there hour moment’s notice and he admitted in the book if it had just taken the guy let’s say 10 minutes of effort which would be longer and could put him more at risk of being late for his gig, he would’ve been happy or if it had taken the guy let’s say 45 minutes to arrive like a bigger ordeal of getting there.

Mike:  Right, like custom something.

Chris:  Then it would’ve felt more justified.

Mike:  Or it was in horrendous downpour or something.

Chris:  And of course after the fact he realized well wait a second, I mean in me paying the same amount of money that 200 dollars for an instant solution. I’m actually getting better value. I’m less likely to be late for my gig.

Mike:   it’s the opposite.

Chris: So when I was listening to this Mike of course I’m thinking to myself wow, this is so well fitting with a story that Andrei, one of our students from mindscaping last June, and I, we were talking over coffee one morning and we were making. I can’t remember. I actually you have a story about this, about ships and…

Mike:  Well the classic metaphor is in a lot of NLP books. The old days of steam ships where they used to call to heat up a huge boiler that would run the steam engine and cross the ocean at a pretty good clip and one of them began to rattle and clank way too loud for a steam engine and it was obviously not a healthy sound and the company found the manufacturer of the steam engine and they send a technician out and he listened to how it was running and he opened their travelling toolbox and took out a hammer and he went up to the steam engine as it was running and tapped in one particular spot, hit it with a hammer and the noise completely disappeared and started running [unclear 20:49] again and of course everybody was thrilled until they got the bill. It was something like 900 dollars or let’s say 900 pounds.

Chris:  A lot of money back then.

Mike:  In Scotland you know. 900 pounds for fixing this and they were so outraged, they said send itemized bill and he wrote back and he said or the company that serviced it said, cost for tapping with hammer one pound, cost for knowing or charge for knowing where to tap, 899 pounds and that’s it. you’re paying for the person’s expertise as much as anything too.

Chris: and so, even though we know this to be the case that people should be paying for expertise, their emotional mind kicks in and they go well it’s not worth it. So how many times in this podcast have you talked about or in the Mike Mandel hypnosis academy have you talked about Mike the idea that a therapeutic intervention might take oh 10 minutes, 15 minutes but how long of a session do you book?

Mike:   I book 90-minute sessions when I was doing this all the time because the fastest I ever got rid of a phobia or fixed a bad problem, this guy in Oshawa not too far from where we are now, and he worked for general motors and he had been having these anxiety attacks. I’m thinking he was having a heart attack and chest pains, pains radiating to the left arm into his jaws. This guy’s about 26 years old, in the peak of health. They would call the paramedics. They’d actually be taking out an ambulance.

Chris:  Geez.

Mike:  And he’s saying to his wife goodbye, I love you thinking he’s dying. He gets to the hospital, only check him out, there’s nothing wrong. It was just purely…

Chris:  Anxiety.

Mike:  It’s psychogenic created in his mind. So I said to him where do you see these heart attacks when you think of it? he said, right here and he showed me in front of himself. I said have you ever had one of those little trains when you were a kid that went around the base of the Christmas tree which is a big thing over here at a certain time in history. He went yes. It would go around the track; the little toy train would go around and around. I said, put that anxiety on a train track right around your eye level. The track went right around your head and I want you to just tap it so that the anxiety and the heart attack swings around and gets behind you and stays there.

Chris:  Oh nice.

Mike:  That was the fix. The whole thing took under 3 minutes and his entire problem disappeared and I checked back with him years later. Now, I build him from my expertise.

Chris:  Not for three minutes of time.

Mike:  Right, not for three minutes of time. And I mean think about it Chris. We should really be thinking of paying more if the person can do it quickly.

Chris:  Absolutely.

Mike:  What would you have to undergo you know testicular amputation on television. Would you rather pay a hundred dollars and have it take three hours or would you rather pay a thousand dollars and have it taken five seconds?

Chris:  Or a nanosecond. I love the metaphor there because I mean it’s just like if for any guy, no that’s painful.

Mike:  You want it quick. If you want it done with an axe or a butter knife, you’re going down with the freaking axe.

Chris:  Pay more. Here we are in Toronto, would you take a bus ora plane if you wanted to get to say Montreal faster?

Mike:   I’ll take a plane.

Chris:  Yeah take a plane. Which one’s going to cost you more?

Mike:   Probably the plane.

Chris: The plane of course.

Mike:   Unless it’s a really high end car.

Chris: And if you can do the click your heels three times and say…

Mike:   There’s no place like home.

Chris: There’s no place like Montreal. What would you pay more for? Nobody in their right mind is going to say well, if I want to be there fast of course I’m not willing to pay for that speed so ill pay more for the bus. I’ll pay more to sit beside some stinking strangers you know who haven’t bathed themselves or whatever. Yeah, I’m going to pay a premium on that in a 6-hour journey. I don’t think so.

Mike:   So like you said I booked the 90-minute appointments and that’s a wonderful think if you are a therapist, psychotherapist, social worker, whatever. If you have hypnotic skills, then if you fix something and you do fix it in 10 or 15 minutes presuming you’ve done an interview first and you gathered sufficient information without it becoming a talk therapy, anti-therapy session then you might’ve only used half an hour, if you set them free now, they might think they wasted their money. They booked a whole session with you. So I say 60-90 minutes, it would lead to open somewhere in-between there. So if they’re really happy and thrilled, I can set them loose or turn them loose at 60 minutes with no problem but the advantage is then you can throw them in a trance if necessary.

Chris: And kill some time with hypnosis.

Mike:   So give them all of these ego strengthening wonderful suggestions so they’ll leave feeling better.

Chris: Let’s talk about this though. Let’s say you have a 10-minute fix for whatever it is. Let’s say instead of this food, let’s come back with a pizza thing. instead of this food rouge we’re going to make you feel sick at the sight of pizza, we’re not going to talk about things that support whatever change you’re going to make to eat healthier foods instead of pizza so now you’re safely happy to avoid pizza but you’re not going to vomit or get sick about it. And now, you’re going to focus on related issues for the rest of the session. You’re not going to say oh, and let’s also work on your relationship or anything that’s totally out of my field right? so what else can you do to support your health? Or other related to it.

Mike:   Something related to it and the unconscious will resonate with that because there is some sort of a connection in their mind. Yeah, absolutely. That’s good.

Chris: So fit the [unclear 26:00] that’s why when people are going through the Mike Mandel hypnosis academy and learning all of the lessons that there are, you can just get so much in your toolbox that you can help people and you can easily fill that 60 or 90 minutes.

Mike:   Which means it would be good time to do a quick commercial here. we do have the November training is sold out. The Architecture of Hypnosis absolutely full five months in advance.

Chris: Now there is a waiting list so get on it in the [unclear 26:28] event that we have…

Mike:   This isn’t some sort of sales ploy. All we’re saying is there’s a waiting list and guess what? Everybody who calls us, gets in. I mean no, no, it is sold out. We only do two hypnosis trainings a year. The next one will be in May and if you want to come out and study with us in may then you might want to start planning in advance to make sure you don’t miss us.

Chris: Other than these podcasts, we basically just don’t advertise the classes because…

Mike:   No we don’t advertise. Lamborghini does not advertise. I think that’s why they’re not selling many cars.

Chris: Now we don’t have a ton of time left on this podcast.

Mike:   I want to go to the metaphor.

Chris:  Okay let’s go to the metaphor and lets skip the topic that we have on queue here for the next one. Go for it because this fits really well.

Mike:   It’s a good metaphor chris. About two months ago, I was at a concert through something called Toronto harvest or something. It had harvest in the title. Acoustic harvest. And this is a little group, they bring in little acoustic players, singers, songwriters, violin players and so on. They did play some amazing stuff. They typically rent a church out of [unclear 27:29] good sound and they sell these tickets and you get to hear some pretty cool players and singers that you wouldn’t typically get to hear and there was a group from Newfoundland there and for those of you outside of Canada, it is the easternmost part of Canada. It’s the most recent province to make it into confederation and Newfies are just fabulous people. They’re warmhearted, they’re easy to get along with, they’re funny as hell and just great people.

Well this group did their concert and they were travelling, two girls and one guy in a van. And so, they hang around afterwards, they signed some CDs and it was time to leave. And he went out to warm up the van or put some stuff in it or whatever. He got there first. He came back in and lo and behold, he had locked the keys in the van and they did not have auto club membership like CAA whatever it is and so he determines he’s going to try and get into the van. So nobody has the slim jim or anything to try to one it. Instead, he gets a coat hanger from back in the church, open this coat hanger up, make a little hook and he goes out, he starts working on the side of the van on and on and on. Its like half an hour, he looked out the door, he’s still trying to get the thing open, will not give up on this. and then after about another 15 minutes, one of the girls goes out to check and he’s gone around to the other side – no, he’s still working on it like this and she walks around to her side of the van and the doors unlocked and she says Jim, the door is open over here. And he said, I already got that one. I’m working on this one.

Chris:  [laughs] no… that’s so awesome. I love it. So thank you everybody for tuning in again like it’s a radio tuning in like old world references. And speaking of metaphors, for podcast number 52 of brain software.

Mike:  Head on over to our website.

Chris:  Mike Mandel and I’m Chris Thompson. Yeah, head on to the website. MikeMandelhypnosis.com. you can add yourself to our email list which will also get you a free copy of Mike’s brilliant brain software eBook. It is full of amazing stuff. We keep getting emails from people who read it and loved it and it’s just awesome, awesome stuff and we ‘d love it if you can head on over to iTunes and leave a rating and a review for this podcast so we can expose it more and more to the rest of the world. That’s right.

Mike:  That’s right. Goodnight.